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Joined 3Y ago
Cake day: Aug 24, 2019


Wow police with batons restore order on a crowded subway train without exits because rioters thought they could murder another old man with no consequences. So scary.

You’re just gonna find anything you can to highlight China is a hellhole that needs to be liberated by our democracy bombs, no?

Also my argument was that he did not expect the cop would shoot which is a testament to their self-control in regards to discharging their weapons. Once again you are completely off topic. You are doing the CIA’s job for them.

It’s bold of you to assume that a video filmed in HK of a cop shooting someone was censored in China and nobody heard about it. That was in fact the one person the police shot in the protests. As they say in the video, he tried to steal the officer’s weapon (not shown in the clip on CBS, it happened earlier). The officer had to answer why he discharged his weapon before a committee as like most civilised countries, police have to log every time they fire a bullet and then defend its use. I seem to remember he was reprimanded for this, but I don’t remember the specifics.

Do you know why the guy in black kept walking towards the cop? Because he thought he wasn’t gonna shoot. He was accustomed to the cops being very passive when aggressed. Do you see people in the US walking up like this to armed cops? No, because if they did, they would get shot to death.

Edit: also the guy in the video survived, so police in China still hasn’t killed anyone.

The other stuff has been debunked thoroughly in other places and is not part of the matter at hand so I’m not gonna reply to it myself. It’s just finding atrocity propaganda to justify intervention against China.

forced labour

Forced labour has existed and exists in virtually all prison systems to this day. It existed in Makhnovia, it existed in Revolutionary Catalonia too. It’s a historical phenomenon and while it does offend our modern sensibilities for various (correct) reasons, it’s a more complicated topic than it appears.

But I wouldn’t call them forced labour camps. What is the difference between a camp and a prison? I highly recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E.

Maybe it started after their help in WW2?

During WW2, a ceasefire of sorts was declared from the US and their European, imperialist allies towards the Soviet Union.

It’s well known that the European powers hated the USSR ever since the October Revolution, and so they expected to let Hitler fight against them. This would weaken both countries and Europe expected they could just swoop in and finally destroy both.

This is not what happened obviously, as Hitler went west first, and the USSR fought Germany on their own.

During the war, you would see propaganda posters like these :

And yet right after the war, communications “broke down” between the two countries? No, the United States never hid who they were. This truce with the Soviet Union was merely temporary and enacted for various reasons. What we call the Cold War was effectively just the revival of anti-communist tensions that started in 1917.

The USA then started lending public money to European countries for rebuilding, known as the Marshall Program. The catch was that this money could only be used to buy American. And the USSR was not allowed to receive this help or any help.

This is how the United States finally brought itself to the status of superpower and was able to dictate history, policy, and diplomacy. That’s why some people today are feeling grateful to the USA (despite not living there or having ever lived there) and they don’t really even know why.

I think it’s fair to argue that the US is at least no worse than China or Russia.

Even if everything we heard about Russia and China was absolutely true, if the death tolls were true, if the atrocity propaganda was true, if the human rights violation were all true, and even if we only counted the crimes of the US from the time the PRC has existed (and not for the whole 276 years of the USA), the US would still rack up a higher death and crime toll than both China and Russia combined.

While you can’t read stuff like this on Russia or China

On china police can shoot someone and not see it on news

How do you know any of that for sure?

Police in China never kill anyone, they don’t even carry guns most of the time…

And I assure you Chinese citizens are more politically aware than the average European or American.

In the West we (claim to) use the media as a fourth extension of the state, to keep in checks and balances. But it doesn’t work out. It doesn’t matter what journalists say, nothing changes. George Floyd was killed by police in the US (no need to make up deaths in China to find an example) and even after 2 months of rightful rioting, the same people are in power and the same people on the ground are telling you to vote for the same 2 candidates. Doesn’t matter what journalists publish or say, when the establishment has worked out a way to keep them in check and even in their pocket.

Whereas in China, since we’re on that example, there are avenues to bring out issues officially. China is the biggest consumer of audits and polls in the world by far, they poll everyone about issues all the time.

That’s why their media doesn’t always talk about the same things. But you can go on English-language Chinese media yourself, like CGTN, CCTV, People’s Daily, China Daily and see for yourself what they talk about. You can also go on Weibo and see what they talk about too, I guarantee you it’s not the 1984 hellscape you think it is.

That’s why we study those systems. We (marxists) didn’t come to realise the nazis were not socialists out of nowhere, we saw what they said about their ideology, how they conducted it, what their class character was for society (the most important criteria), etc.

That’s why we uphold the USSR, the PRC, the DPRK… but not Nazi Germany or Pol Pot’s Cambodia. Because after studying them in and out (through our own framework, as anyone does) we see how they operated and still operate.

People tended to loose interest with the communist manifesto after the gulags started

Only in the imperialist core (the west). During the 20th century, even after Stalin’s death, we saw Cuba, Burkina Faso, Chile, probably others I’m not remembering right now…

This is also the time of the Cold War, where our information in this core was filtered through the “leader of the free world”, the United States. And to this day when you find people that lived through it on this side, they will tell you (I’m not joking) that the United States is a champion of human rights and liberty. Even in Europe.

The gulag system (an acronym for the ministry of justice and corrections) was started under the Tsar so if we want to use them on a chart you won’t have a single data point but many. That’s why I picked Stalin’s death instead.

If you agree Western journalists are being persecuted for what they find out however, you should also probably agree that our media lies to us – including about China or the USSR.

It proves China at the time had this particular diplomatic tie with Cambodia. Nothing more, nothing less. You’re extrapolating a single event in history to tie into a narrative – any academic historian doing that would be asked for their credentials.

But I don’t blame you for this, because the history of communism is the only place where this is not only regularly done in an academic setting, but encouraged. And you would be considered a revisionist if you offered any other alternative even when supported by facts (such as the opening of the USSR records).

After the fledgling PRC entered a war (more of a border skirmish) with Vietnam because of Cambodia, they realised it was the wrong path to sign defensive pacts with everyone. They radically changed their position and to this day refuse to sign defensive pacts with any other country.

In any case, He certainly had a strong relationship with China.

How does this prove Pol Pot was a communist though?

You contradict yourself. Assange is literally being persecuted, Snowden had to flee. Manning was jailed for years.

Either media is free or it’s not, if whistleblowers are being hunted then there is no free media. There cannot be free media anyway, it’s never existed and cannot exist.

They can talk bad about their own country.

Yes, but the point is to change it.

Lol, I’m also tall and I tend to slouch a bit because I want to be on other people’s level. I think we just have to accept that we’re taller and stand up straight, I have to remind myself.

If the party wants a web site with user comments, it can make one and appoint moderators who can be recalled by party members.

I am seriously thinking about this now that lemmy supports private instances with closed registrations… if I host an instance for a party I can also control every setting, and encrypt everything… the only way feds could ever see anything is if they get access to a user account. But I’m not sure if the link aggregator format would work well for party organising.

lol MLM in this context means Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.

But I also see nothing wrong with making fun of these MLMs.

That “essay” reads like a terminally online rant lol, sorry. I was made aware of it some time ago and we had a good laugh about it, because it feels like it was written by an angsty pre-teen, but this is a full-grown adult chasing strawmen in his head and the best examples he can find to illustrate his arguments is online drama and shitposting. I did have a good laugh when he said Raddle was an illegalist space, because I had to look into it afterwards and even other anarchists find this ideology questionable (I still don’t really understand how clearly self-motivated gangsters were later found to be anarchists either, because I couldn’t find these original illegalists calling themselves anarchists).

Edit: i was actually thinking of https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-eradicate-left-unity, I got confused by the names being similar. Keeping this comment up because ziq is too funny not to share lol

Wikipedia is not a source bruh. In the introductory paragraph on the uyghur genocide article they say that thousands of mosques have been destroyed… But don’t mention they have been rebuilt to accommodate more people or because they weren’t up to code. There are more mosques in Xinjiang alone in 2021 than there are in all of Europe lol.

Wikipedia has a clear agenda and this is clear from looking at their board of directors and demographics. They are not a source and neither are their sources - - they are carefully curated to offer a specific analysis.