browsing through All has so much pro-fascist posts coming from lemmygrad that it drowns out all the other instances. I’m surprised they’re even federated by default but we should have an option to block instances from All if lemmy is deadset on federating with them just because they are fascists with a red and yellow flag…
(before the Tankies start posting about how they aren’t pro-fascism “Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy” which all describe the Z movement in Russia they gleefully support in multiple posts)
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I want the option to block instances, but why you need to offend so many people at once in a single post? Calling communists fascists. That’s like saying your christian friend is a lover of satan for no reason except to intentionally annoy them. This is not civilized at all.
I agree. It’s unnecessary and inflammatory to use a feature request to complain about a particular forum or group. It foreseeably led to a ton of derailment.
If they were requesting the admins to defederate, it would be inflammatory but at least relevant.
Im not calling communists fascists I’m saying the people supporting the Z army’s are supporting fascists. Just like id call christian friends who support their priest after theyve been caught raping children as supporting rapists.
I bet you support the antifascist azov battalion
Never gonna happen
Lmao, that’s the funniest thing i read all day.
Not to mention you can do it. Click on settings, there will be a tab “blockades”. Write what you want and voila you won’t have to rack your brain ever again with concepts that make your imperialist programmed brain too uncomfortable.
I would recommend getting back to reddit though.
Nothing stops you from running your own instance and federating with whatever instances you want from it.
They think that Lemmygrad and Russia are “fascist” for supporting denazification in Ukraine.
This is your brain on western propaganda.
Nothing stops you from hosting your own: Tor node, Instance, VPN, Server, Email domain, front-end, insert anything that moves responseability to the individual so I don’t have to listen.
I’m not the one moaning about what servers Lemmy federates with here.
Actually some things are stopping that
There’s always reddit for people who guzzle western propaganda out of a firehose.
Typical extremist retort.
Muh centrism
Ah you do realize that’s not what centrism is
No extremism allowed! If you are currently being oppressed because you are, like, disabled or something, NO fighting against establishment! Only dying allowed!
You’re right, that’s not centrism. It is conservative.
I’m a leftist, and you are nothing but a nationalist reactionary
You are a conservative, i am not a nationalist, i hate my country
Just because it’s for another country doesn’t mean it’s not nationalism…
Nationalism and leftism are not incompatible, if you think they aren’t then you’ve got a lot of theory to read because you must also be against every single anti-colonial movement that has ever happened in history, you must also be against Palestinian liberation, you must also have been against Irish liberation, etc etc etc.
You must do class analysis on the character of a thing before you demonise it. One form of nationalism is nationalism with a bourgeoise class character - america, britain, the entire west. Another form of nationalism is nationalism with a proletarian class character. Supporting proletarian nationalism is good, supporting bourgeoise nationalism is bad.
National liberation movements and decolonialism has relied HEAVILY on proletarian nationalism and unless you’re going to advocate that those things have been bad and you’d prefer massive genocides then you should pretty much shut the fuck up and stop demonstrating how little you read.
Extremely good.
This would also describe America.
So unless you want to ban all liberals and supporters of America (which would mean you) you need to tighten your funtionally useless definition of fascism. You should start by reading an actual book and learning the history of fascism.
When you misuse the word fascism to describe things that are not fascism you mis-educate huge wide swathes of people on what fascism actually is. In doing so you HELP actual fascists rehabilitate their ideology. You are helping fascists by calling something that is not fascism, fascism.
no one on any instance is cheering on anything the US does especially not its occupation or invasion of any country…
I’m not cheering it on either. Some elements of the left are, some aren’t. That’s ok. I can understand some of our younger marxist-leninists getting caught up in it. The vast majority of MLs are quite critical and reflect a position closer to Cuba’s official statement on the matter.
What I critically support is what brings the fastest end to the bloodshed of the people. That right now is a swift victory because clearly the west wants Ukraine to sacrifice the entire population in a war that it can not win, for the interests of the US. I would much prefer for negotiations to happen immediately and for things to stop right now but that clearly is impossible as the political opposition to the war within Ukraine has been entirely suppressed by the far right, all anti-war parties have been banned, and all tv channels that do not push a pro-war position have been closed. The only narrative that exists is the drums of war, and this makes it completely impossible to negotiate an end to the war.
weird that you think ukraine should just accept “swift victory” by the fascist Z army but dont think cuba should just accept “swift victory” by the US or Palestine by Israel etc…
none of the countries should accept “swift victory” by those invading and trying to commit genocide against them. You should unequivocally stand against imperialism but you dont because right now the ones invading wave a flag you like.
That’s not what is happening and only an idiot or a person that genuinely wants to help real fascists would say this, which is what I suspect you actually are but I will humour the bullshit anyway for the sake of whatever audience might come across this.
When you misuse words like fascism and genocide you help the people who are REAL fascists and performing REAL genocides by muddying the meaning of these terms in the understanding of the wider public. You harm opposition to real genocides.
Misuse of the term genocide is also acknowledged to be a form of soft holocaust denial. Calling something a genocide that does not actually reflect the very real horror of what genocides really are is extremely harmful to the real sufferers of genocide.
Invading a country is not imperialism and this war was not started on imperialist grounds. Imperialism is an economic system, an elevated form of capitalism (the highest stage) in which finance-capital has evolved to such a point that it has seized control of the state and directs all of its actions. This war started due to longstanding security issues between nato and russia that could not (or would not) be resolved by either side coming to a head because Ukraine was the subject of a coup in 2014 that sparked a civil war that was ongoing for 8 years before Russia stepped in.
But this is all besides the point. I don’t give a fuck about the states involved. I care about the people. You are advocating for something that will kill many many tens or hundreds of thousands more people in order to defend a state. I already acknowledge that all of the states involved are bad, states are bad and states do bad things, that’s literally why I’m a communist and seek a world in which we can abolish states entirely.
I support whatever scenario brings about the lowest number of casualties to the people, whereas you support sacrificing the people to protect the state. You support this because it aligns with US interests. You genuinely do not give a fuck about the real human lives involved and the fact that you pretend to is quite frankly disgusting to me.
Fascism is (…) which all describe the usa, which has oppressed most of us all our lives long. Anyone who works against the usa works against Fascism.
And this is why no one should trust anything the usa says. Or their media. Or their vassals’ media.
Not sure how that would work. Would you want all users from that instance blocked? Or just communities from that instance that you aren’t subscribed to blocked? Have a blocked instance section in profile settings?
Or would you want instance admins to be able to block instances from all unless subscribed to.
I would imagine it would work similarly to how blocking a community does, except it blocks all the communities from that instance. I feel like it would be excessive to block all the users as well, but that could be an option too. You could split it: have an option to block all communities from an instance and a separate option to block all users from an instance.
I want users to be able to block instances from all unless subscribed to.
I support this feature. But Wikipedia is not an authority on what fascism is. The dictionary attempts to describe the usage of a word in this case as it relates to an objective phenomenon. Before we can attempt this description, an understanding of the objective phenomenon must be had. We can rely on definitions for understood phenomena like water, jogging, or birds. But what exactly fascism is is a hotly debated topic, not a well understood phenomenon that we hold absolute knowledge and certainty of. Even your dictionary source admits it is a characterization of fascism, not exactly a definition.
A conservative will reason discursively that Hitler was a leftist, because the Left can be defined as more government, so Fascism is far left. In the same way, that buzzfeed employee could argue their own view of what misogyny is. To them, when a man spreads their legs in public, this is the sexist act of manspreading.
What these people (and you) are doing is taking a word that has a strongly negative connotation, arguing for an expanded categorization of this word in an attempt to rub off that connotation on something else. But all this succeeds in doing is devaluing said word.
Fascism has a negative connotation because its consequence was the death of 60-100 million people. That has nothing to do with Bernie supporters wanting to give people free healthcare. The “more government” connection (what even does ‘more government’ mean?) has to be proven more than circumstantial. Likewise, sexism has a negative connotation because of rape, women in the past not having basic rights like the right to vote, etc. But a man letting his balls get some air has nothing to do with that, even if people find it a little rude.
They have algebraically replaced a world phenomenon with a term, much like a mathematician replaces a quantity with the letter ‘X’ on paper. Then they have discursively reasoned using the term, not the phenomenon. You can find the length of a square’s side from the root of the area. We have a square that is 4 cm2. So what is √4? Math tells us that it is ±2. So a square in real life can have a negative length? This is the lunacy that you will accept with analytical reasoning if you do not understand its premises.
So instead of lazily giving us a definition full of nebulous terms, why not prove to me that any similarities between modern Russia and the Fascist countries are more than circumstantial? What is the unity behind these particular examples? All states are militaristic. All states suppress real opposition. Authoritarianism is no realer than the boogeyman. Russia does not have a “strong regimentation of society” so you’re just flat out wrong there.
What? Are you saying authoritarianism is not a real thing?
That is correct
Please explain
https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Authoritarianism
Random link but seems to explain it well.
That is a psychology wiki article about authoritarian personality, not about authoritarianism.
What most people mean by authoritarianism is a form of government. You are an anarchist right? You would agree the state is just the way the ruling class asserts its position, and that all states have this monopoly of the legitimate use of violence. If that’s what a state is, how can one state have more of a monopoly than another? A monopoly is a monopoly. However you see it, the class in power rules absolutely. No state is more authoritarian or libertarian than any other.
Yes please! I have nothing against Lemmygrad, but I also don’t want them to overwhelm everything else from my All feed. Please let us block entire instances, not just communities.
The easiest solution for now is to join us at beehaw.org or our friends at sopuli.xyz or midwest.social. We block lemmygrad and put much care in moderation
I think the point is that this shouldn’t be necessary. Individual users should be able to filter out entire instances without having to jump to an entirely new account.
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This comment section makes my phone lag lol
147 (now 148) comments on this crap. Why is it we can’t seem to get a liveley discussion like this but on a topic that isn’t some crybaby infighting?
Really feels like some reactionary bait that lemmygrad users are swallowing whole.
At least for now, there are really just a small number of communities on lemmygrad that contain the most obnoxious material. I found that it worked to block:
Tbh this is basically my problem, too much political content, I’ve blocked all the sublemmies I can but seeing that the default user experience isn’t this streamlined is a big problem I have for not recommending Lemmy to anyone.
I see it as a divide between people who want to enjoy tech/privacy version of Reddit, and people who want it to be Twitter but their own tribe, this goes for Wolfballs, and Lemmygrad.
tech/privacy is political. if you don’t understand that you’re probably too privileged to notice or care.
You are correct and something doesn’t add up
Imagine, lemmy.ml claims to be about privacy but supports the PRC, which is like the most anti-privacy organization on the planet.
No, that would be the NSA
They’re #2
No. Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, …
So the NSA AND a bunch of corps are spying on us? Thats obviously less worse than just the state monitoring your com’s.
Seems much worse to me since the corps don’t just give your data to the government, theysell it en masse for advertising purposes.
That’s all tied under US surveillance. The PRC has its social media operations and tech companies too. Basically everything you hate about the USA, they are doing it too
They are not flying over half the globe to murder people there. They do not murder the poor. They do not create neonazis. They do not exempt the rich from laws. They do not let people die from covid. They do not force people to have a car. They have a no first strike nuclear policy. They do not have school shootings. They do not have police that protects school shooters. They do not have hollywood. They do not have melon husk. They do not have a history of genociding a whole continent. They banned bitcoin mining. They did not create facebook. They do not have 100s of military bases. They did not privatize their space sector.
This is not entirely accurate, but you are right that they haven’t developed to that stage yet of invading countries on the other side of the world, but if the power level gets high enough that’s exactly what will happen. USA was also where China is at now and it took a while to get to that point. China has its own version of some of the things you mentioned, and some other things that are not pleasant. Your optimism that China will be a better hegemon than past ones in history is sadly naive.
What are you talking about? USA didn’t get to this point the same way China did at all. China got to where it is without doing anything to anyone, without using slavery, without using foreign exploitation, with entirely their own means.
The US was built by literal slaves, and the mass exploitation of the entire world. How the fuck can you say the US wasn’t built on foreign exploitation when MILLIONS of actual literal slaves were exploited to construct it? What the fuck kind of white western chauvinism is this?
It’s utterly nonsensical to compare the rise of the two. One has clearly risen on its own means without being remotely like any other rising power that has ever existed in history while the other is one of the biggest monsters to have ever existed.
Actually according to the UN China is still using slavery. I agree China didn’t do all the bad things America has done yet, but does some and will do more. It’s the nature of power and wealth. China is already exploiting foreign lands, as I live in one of them. There are other inaccuracies in what you wrote but this much suffices.
I did not claim anywhere what you wrote in your second paragraph. Just throwing out “white western chauvinism” is absurd. What kind of nonsense is this?
Stop fetishizing and othering China by claiming it’s exceptional and angelic. It’s just a normal country like any other and the issue is not China’s rise, it is what its politicians will do after the rise that’s important.
No it isn’t, no such resolution has taken place and no body of the UN has made that claim, you are literally talking complete and utter bullshit. You should stop getting your information from reddit comment sections and start actually fucking reading.
The fact that you would make this claim when UN High Commissioner for Human Rights visited Xinjiang just a few weeks ago and gave a glowing report is utterly hilarious. Do you actually pay attention to any official sources at all or do you only get your information from what other white people vote into your sphere of visibility?
Islamic envoys from 30 countries all disagree with you. Why do you believe white people on the topic of muslims instead of listening to what muslims actually have to say? Are you going to dismiss them in favour of your US propaganda? You’d be dismissing the ENTIRE muslim world on the topic of muslims which would be yet another incredible demonstration of white western chauvinism and racism.
And lmao @ this. China just announced that it has fully cancelled 23 loans to 17 African countries. Such exploitation! Such debt trap!
It was in fact reported by the UN. As for the claim that Muslims approve of the treatment of Uyghurs in China that is false. The envoys you mentioned are not Islamic and do not represent Muslims.
No it fucking wasn’t lmao. Good luck finding it to prove it.
Holy fucking shit. You are literally just lying now, backed into a corner you just make shit up.
The entire muslim world supports China and opposes this western propaganda. Literally every single muslim country. The only people that perpetuate this bullshit are the white western countries. This should tell you something but instead you’re a racist who will just dismiss the muslim countries in favour of your white nato propaganda.
You lack any and all material understanding because your hatred of russians and chinese blinds you. Those are also conveniently people the usa has demonized for decades. You accuse the chinese of things they did not do, but could do, THAT THE USA ALREADY DID!
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I can’t get a job here and you accuse me of team sports?
How is that relevant? If China were the global hegemon and not the US you still wouldn’t have a job
Wrong
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You mentioned living under the US government, but now I understand better what you meant.
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You’re right I forgot
China passed new data privacy laws that are as strong as Europe’s GDPR at the end of last year, when is the last time America improved data privacy instead of harming it? Their data protection is much much stronger than America’s and much like europe they dump fines in the millions on companies that break it now. It’s arguably stronger than europe.
I don’t see how that stops the state’s mass surveillance programs
The US government has backdoors into every single US-based tech platform (which is basically all of them) and you’re concerned about China doing mass surveillance?
You are under mass surveillance. Five Eyes and other intelligence sharing alliances are a means of circumventing national privacy laws, the US has Britain do mass surveillance on US citizens and then that data is shared to the NSA and stored, the US does mass surveillance on British, NZ, Aus citizens and then that data is shared to them and stored by their intelligence services. The collective west has the largest and most comprehensive global mass surveillance apparatus in the world and yet you’re utterly obsessed with China. Why? Five Eyes, Nine Eyes and it’s now all the way up to Fourteen Eyes.
Take off the propaganda goggles and look at the immense proportions of the western apparatus first. You seem to be utterly blind to the fact everything you see about China is MASSIVE projection from the west who are 20-30 years ahead of China in terms of this apparatus.
And to answer your question, China’s law does not exempt the government. They require a warrant to access that data unlike in america and parts of europe.
Your whataboutism is pretty useless. China also uses its tech companies for spying. China’s mass surveillance program is larger and more ambitious. If anyone has been duped by propaganda it’s you.
“Whataboutism”. Bruh.
If you say something is bad you are INHERENTLY making a comparison to other things. You can not call one thing bad without benchmarking it against other things and gauging a comparison of a range of good to bad.
It is important to benchmark this because it highlights unexamined chauvinism, sinophobia and internal hypocrisy that you have. You have an extreme emotional reaction to anything Chinese and make the claim they’re horrific but you don’t actually compare the reality of the west with what China is. You claim they are the worst, you have done this multiple times in the thread, this is YOU making the comparison to others so OF COURSE I’m going to examine whether your comparison is remotely accurate.
I will end this interaction by pointing you to this list of US atrocities, managed by Dessalines himself.
Tell me again how China is the worst one here.
Do you spend this much time attacking America? Or the rest of the west? No you don’t. Despite the fact they are objectively and measurably worse. Because you’re a chauvinist that has never done one ounce of self crit or examined your own contradictions.
I’ve criticized America much more than I ever criticized China. You are hypocritically collecting lists of US crimes and not Chinese crimes. Hmm I wonder why you neglect that. Oh yes confirmation bias.
Anyway your assessment of me is baseless. Keep harping on that dumb claim that I hate China.
When? I don’t see that in any of your history. I see a lot of whining about everyone except the west.
All of your energy is spent on enemies of nato and none of it is spent on the biggest and most horrible entity in the world. It’s very obvious where your allegiances lie.
Yeah, I just browsed all for the first time in a while, and its just lemmygrad. First post is about how Russia is “liberating” Ukraine. Literal fascists.
Oh god here we go again. Calling Russia, a country that just wants it’s borders left alone a fascist. Meanwhile calling NATO, a organization from the same country that filled Ukraine with Nazis, wholesome democratic fighters.
Your comment is factually incorrect… Russia has been expanding its borders for a long time and Ukraine wasn’t the first violation. There is a war now because Russia violated Ukraine’s borders.
Ukraine is also not full of Nazis. Some exist, but they are few in number. Russia has more crazy right wing fascist types than Ukraine does and the Russian government actively encourages this. Putin is a type of right wing nationalists dictator.
Sources?
lol you need a source for this?
Uh, yeah. Those are some bold claims about countries that you probably have never been to.
Right like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a “claim”… ? I understand why you would assume I’ve never been to this part of the world, but I do in fact live here. The place I live is basically a Russian colonial asset, and China has started colonizing it recently too, although Chinese culture is not yet very influential here. Because of where I live I experienced first hand the right-wing conservatism that Russia exports, and has exported since the time of the USSR, that Russians are a superior nation, a superior white race, have a superior language and culture, that Asians are subhumans, that homosexuals are evil, Jews are evil, and so on… people are forced to go to nationalist rallies and marches, adore their “leader”, and all that wonderful stuff. You don’t even want to know the fucked up stuff that goes on in primary schools, where most of this stuff starts. Anyway I could go on but I’ve never seen fascism as up close in my life than when I moved to the Russian sphere. I’ve had neighbors “disappear”, coworkers going into hiding after the police saw them at a political rally and then came to their workplace, and more. You would never want to live here just stay in North America or Western Europe or wherever it is Lemmy communists are from. You can play make-believe with your first world communism, but over here in Asia it’s a different story. I was surprised when I moved here I thought the local communist party would be some kind of progressive organization and then I found out it’s a bunch of conservatives who want Russian colonialism to be revitalized.
You do realize Russia is part of asia, right?
Yes, but it’s a white supremacist culture. Russian national identity is based on the notion that they are white Christians who defeated evil gay Asian invaders and saved their sacred white European nation in the process. You can see this clearly in Russian media like in the movie Kolovrat where the Mongol villains are depicted as gender queer.
In Russia not all people in Russia are called “Russan”. The people there who look Asian, particularly if they have black hair or look non-white in any way are called churka, the Russian equivalent of n****r, or gypsy. People who can’t speak Russian are subject to abuse, like if you speak an Asian language in Moscow you might get told to “speak human”. I could go on but you get the picture.
so it invades another country, and promotes insane nationalism where supporters spray paint their Zwastika on homes of people who are against the war… Russia’s ruled by a government that made it illegal to be gay in public, essentially decriminalizes domestic abuse against women, and funds far right nationalist around the world (like the U.S. did to ruin almost every Latin American country in the past). If you had any friends living in Russia you’d know its currently ruled by dictator who promotes far right christian nationalism even if you didn’t believe all the “CIA propaganda” from western outlets.
Russias enemy is a country that flies to the other side of the globe to oppress and murder. No matter how bad russia is, usa is 10x worse.
they also have a community dedicated to brigading other websites which seems like it should violate TOS
if it werent for all the stars on their instance it would be difficult to tell them apart from a MAGA forum
Violate which TOS? Reddit TOS? This is lemmy.
I’m saying it should probably be against lemmy TOS to brigade other websites
I’m going to assume you’ve lived your entire online existence on non federated platforms. There are no ‘TOS’ for the fediverse and each instance is free to federate with whichever instsces they choose.
Start your own instance and federate with whichever instances interest you.
Why?
Even though I don’t particularly like or agree with the attitude or points of lemmygrad users, I still think there should be no blocking/defederation on instance level.
IMHO it’s a fundamental design flaw of lemmy, that the instance administrators have the ability to prevent their users from accessing content from certain other instances just because of their different (political/ideological) orientation. Being exposed to other opinions, even though you don’t like or agree with them, is very important. Yet this seems to become an increasingly rare phenomenon. Even if an instance doesn’t want to promote the posts of another, the users should still be able to decide on their own, which community to subscribe or block. I’d love to see more features for that.
From reading the comments in this or other threads, I can see that it wont take long until lemmy will go the same echo chambered and biased way reddit went and ultimately this will be its demise. Alienating everyone who questions the current development with “Just go somewhere else” or “Get lost and host your own instance” is certainly the best way to go for ensuring only the right people stay for the infinite circle jerk…
I think the instances should be fully connected as possible, but this isn’t a design flaw that admins can block instances. It is their resources going into hosting, so they should be able to decide how they want to run their own instances. Having the software prevent them from doing this would be developer overreach.
This is called moderation… It’s basically the same thing as deleting individual comments that don’t fit the rules.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any moderation. But there’s a difference between deleting a post and preventing whole communities to be accessed because of a subjective sense of what is the correct viewpoint on [topic], be it political, ideological or else.
I could imagine a setting where other instances’ posts/communities aren’t shown on the All page, but could still be subscribed / viewed by the user if he requests it.
how should admins deal with malicious servers? Like some that post illegal stuff or whatever.
This is indeed a difficult problem. Especially as laws and their interpretation are highly dependent on the hosting location.
Hiding posts behind warnings or only showing them only on user request are on the top of my head.
That’s not a solution for illegal content.
See this related idea by @roko , where admins can block instances, but the user can unblock them for themself
Very interesting blog post! Thanks for sharing.
sounds like a great way to have lemmy overun with spam and fascist propaganda…